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	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-17-02 18:15 No 346240		Universal Extraction Technique: Straight to Bee (Rated as: excellent)	Bookmark Reply
			The following is for educational and informational purposes only.  It is not the posters intent that this information be used for anything that would be considered illegal or in violation of any international laws. The poster accepts no responsibility for any and all activities that may be carried out as a result of the information contained herein. Check your local, state and federal laws. The poster shall not be held liable and indemnified from impeachment for the use, misuse, injury, death, imprisonment or fellation due to the application of this information. Extraction Technique: Straight to Bee--The New Cure A Universal Pill Extraction Technique - Purpose - SWIVE has only been doing free base reactions so his goal was to create a fast, clean method for producing psuedo free base from an ever changing array of pills.  He believes this technique will accomplish just that.  No pre washing, no soaking, no red removal.  It's not a water less A/B in fact,  it's just the B and thats why he calls it "Straight to Bee". It is totally OTC and uses activated carbon as a cleaning aide while exploiting the lazy characteristics of VM&P naptha. This method was written to be easily scalable.  Average yield is 60% of very clean free base. - Definitions - In this write up SWIVE will use the phrase "for every box of pills used" This stands for every box of 48 x 60mg, or 96 x 30mg, or 20 x 120mg. In addition SWIVE will use the phrase "for every gram of total pill mass" This stands for the total weight of the pills before grinding. Text appearing in red denotes actions that should bee followed exactly for best results. Text appearing in green denotes FAQS. (frequently asked questions) - Materials - One beaker or other heat proof glassware (approximately 100ml for every box of pills used) One erlenmeyer flask or other heat proof glassware (approximately 100ml for every box of pills used) One graduated cylinder 100-200ml or other liquid measuring device in ml One pyrex pie plate (2 if more than 5 boxes are used) Two 5" glass funnels or plastic fuel funnels One 5" wire mesh kitchen strainer (dollar store type) One 5ml baby medicine dropper Charmin bath tissue (reg no scent) Glass stirring rod or bamboo skewers Clean coffee grinder Hot plate Small fan Small scale weighing in grams Safety glasses, latex gloves Activated carbon, research grade (pets fart store) Corn starch (supermarket) Dry acetone - CH3COCH3 (dried with baked sodium carbonate) Sodium carbonate - Na2CO3 (washing soda) Sodium chloride - NaCl (salt) Sodium hydroxide - NaOH (lye) VM&P naptha - no substitutions (paint store) (Do Not use colemans, pet ether, lighter fluid, etc.) - Optional Materials - Gassing setup if HCL salt is desired outcome One Inflatable Lab Assistant Six pack of Guinness - Abstract of Procedure - Combine Pills with activated carbon, NaCl, NaOH and Na2CO3. Grind to a fine powder and sift through strainer. Stir in acetone. Add trace amount of water. Mix until paste. Add corn starch. Mix until consistency of damp potting soil. Dry completely. Add naptha. Heat to boiling while stirring. Filter thru Charmin filter. Repeat two times Freeze filtrate. Filter out crystals. Convert to salt form if desired. - Standard Procedure - 01) Weigh pills and record total weight. 02) Place pills into a clean coffee grinder. 03) For every box of pills used add:   - 2 grams of washing soda   - 2 grams of salt   - 4 grams of activated carbon   - 4 grams sodium hydroxide What if it all won't fit in the coffee grinder? Process about 3 - 4 boxes at a time. Why am I adding salt? To attract water and to act as an abrasive to aid in grinding. Why am I adding washing soda? To act as a buffering agent. After grinding the mixture becomes hot and doesn't sift well? Carbon sold for aquarium filtration may contain excess moisture. The moisture content will be apparent when the carbon is ground. Moist carbon will tend to cake on the side of the grinder, and will feel moist. If the carbon is moist, dry it before use by heating in an oven or microwave. Take precautions handling the heated carbon to avoid burns. Allow the carbon to cool before grinding or combining with other ingredients. Store any unused dried carbon in an air tight container. 04) Grind the mixture to a fine powder. Its important that we grind the mixture as fine and uniformly as possible, about the consistency of coarse flour. 05) Sift the mixture into the beaker using a wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel to minimize dusting.  When grinding and sifting be careful with vents, fans and open windows so your pseudo doesn't blow away as dust.  You also dont want to inhale NaOH or carbon dust. Let the dust settle in the coffee grinder before opening the lid. 06) For every gram of total pill mass add:   - 1.5ml dry acetone This measurement will get you in the ball park. We want the mixture to be a liquid at this point, not a paste. Add more acetone in small increments as the mixture will go from stiff to fluid very quickly. Acetone used for this purpose should be dried before use, as the moisture content of acetone can vary over such a wide range that the only way to obtain consistent results it to dry the acetone before use. 07) For every box of pills used add while stirring:   - 3 drops DH2O (use the baby medicine dropper) Why are we using dry acetone and then adding water? Since the amount of moisture present is critical for proper basing, and the water content of non-dried acetone is widely variable,  the only way to accurately control the moisture available for basing is to dry the acetone first, then add a measured amount of water. 08) Stir with a glass rod for about 3 to 4 minutes. The mixture will slowly thicken to a wet paste. 09) For every box of pills used add:   - 1.0 gram corn starch 10) Stir for a few minutes. The mixture will become very stiff and the consistency of damp potting soil, with no signs of visible liquid. Add more cornstarch in very small increments if nessesary. Why the cornstarch? The cornstarch is a great absorbent and helps to dry our mixture fast. When drying the cornstarch will keep our mixture from turning into hard little rocks and when powdered again keeps the mixture free flowing. It also will help absorb waxy gak when we extract our free base. 11) Spread out the mixture on the pie plate(s) and let dry completely. It will dry fast because the carbon has increased the surface area of our mixture. 12) When completely dry sift the mixture back into the beaker using the wire mesh strainer placed inside a large funnel. 13) For every box of pills used add:   - 35ml Naptha 14) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling.  Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a few minutes. Isn't boiling naptha dangerous? Boiling any flammable solvent is an extremely dangerous practice.  Solvents should not be heated over an open flame or on any apparatus that is capable of producing a spark. This includes defective or damaged electric hot plates.  Adequate ventilation is required. This should not be done in a closed environment due to risk of explosion and/or fire and due to health concerns regarding inhalation of solvent fumes.  The constant use of a fan positioned to blow across the solvent will disburse the vapor, reduce the risk of fire and explosion. 15) While waiting, make a charmin filter. Take 4 plys of charmin and fold three times to make a square. Fold that over once and then once again to make a quarter square. Completely wet the square with some clean naptha using the medicine dropper and place the pad into the bottom of funnel across the neck. The Charmin should not be "packed" or "compressed". Gently mold the edges around the contour of the funnel bottom.  Wet it again with naptha and place this filter-funnel into the erlenmeyer flask. 16) Slowly decant the naptha into the funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time.  If you make a big puddle it may start to crystalize in the funnel clogging the filter. The filtered naptha should be crystal clear. Free base crystals will start to form in the filtrate. Set the flask aside. 17) For every box of pills used add:   - 20ml Naptha 18) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling.  Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate and set aside to let the solids settle out for a minute. 19) Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Don't pour in more than can pass through the charmin in more or less real time. Do not replace the charmin, continue to re-use the same pad. 20) For every box of pills used add:   - 10ml Naptha 21) Mix well. Then place the beaker on the hot plate set to med high heat. With constant gentle stirring, heat the mixture until boiling.  Turn heat off and continue to stir for 1 minute. Remove from hot plate. 22) Slowly decant the naptha into the same filter-funnel in small amounts and allow it to filter through the Charmin into the flask combining filtrates. Then empty the entire contents of the beaker into the filter funnel and let drain. 23) While draining boil a small amount of naptha about 5 ml for every box of pills used. When all the liquid appears to have drained through,  pour the boiling naptha over the filter cake and let it drain again. Then take a large spoon and press down on top of filter cake squeezing any remaining naptha into the flask. Should I do a forth pull? You can try but tests have shown its usually not enough gain to justify the effort. Only do additional pulls if the end result is less than 45% 24) Place the erlenmeyer flask with the combined filtrate on the hot plate set to med high. Heat to boiling or until all crystals have re-dissolved. Pour the hot filtrate into clean pie plate(s). 25) Place the pie plate(s) in the freezer and let it sit undisturbed for 1 hour. 26) Remove the pie plate(s) from the freezer and pour off the used naptha filtering out free base crystals using a coffee filter. Let the collected free base crystals dry. Some crystals may adhere to the pie plate. Let them dry before removing. 27) The remaining naptha does contain some additional pseudoephedrine free base. You may wash the naptha thoroughly with warm distilled water and titrate to obtain the remaining pseudoephedrine in HCL form. This pseudoephedrine HCL will not be as clean as the free base, and will need to be rinsed with acetone, then recrystallized twice before being added to a reaction. The use of this pseudoephedrine with the free base is not recommended. This pseudoephedrine HCl can be accumulated until the quantity is sufficient to react by itself. 28) If the HCL salt is the desired outcome, redissolve the free base crystals in to a non polar and gas accordingly. Do Not gas the original Naptha. If you gas the original naptha you will pick up unwanted contaminants. You may alternatively move the free base crystals into a small quantity of dH2O and add HCl drop wise with stirring until the free base crystals all dissolve. Evaporate over low heat until this alligators over, then flash with dry acetone. Filter the acetone and pseudoehphedrine HCL though a coffee filter, rinse with acetone, allow to dry. - Calculating Yield - When calculating your yield remember to adjust for free base. Psuedo HCl is about 202gr per mole and psuedo free base is about 166gr per mole. So 166 divided by 202 is a ratio of 0.82  So potential yield from 1 box of 120's would be 20 x 120 x 0.82 = 1.9 grams free base vs 2.4 grams for psuedo HCL. - Advantages and Disadvantages - The technique should be, for the near future, virtually universal. It should successfully extract most pseudoephedrine pills. The materials are easily available and draw less attention than xylene and tolulene purchases. Yields should range in the sixty percent range. The pseudoephedrine so obtained will be very clean--characteristic of A/B extractions of pseudoephedrine. The main disadvantage is heating a flamable solvent. - Acknowledgements - Created in a dream by SWIVE.  This would not of been possible without the fearless contributions of many bees and the invaluable database we call the Hive. A special thanks goes to the Geezmeister, MnkyBoy77 and Scottydog for donating their time, wisdom and valuable precursors to field test this technique. Has shown to be effective with pills containing the following ingredients: _______________________________ 30 mg "red hots," whether name brand or generic _______________________________ Pseudoephedrine HCl  60 mg Tripolidine 2.5 mg corn starch Flavor Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose lactose Magnesium Stearate Polyethylene glycol potato starch providone sucrose titanium dioxide patent no. 5098715 210CA01 _______________________________ Pseudoephedrine HCl  60 mg Tripolidine 2.5 mg Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose Magnesium Stearate Polyethylene glycol starch titanium dioxide may also contain: cellulose Dioctyl Sodium Sulfosuccinate Hydroxypropyl cellulose lactose Polysorbate 80 providone powdered cellulose pre gelatinized starch silica gel silicon dioxide sodium starch glycolate stearic acid _______________________________ Pseudoephedrine HCl  60 mg Tripolidine 2.5 mg carnauba wax corn starch flavor Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose lactose Magnesium Stearate Polyethylene glycol providone sucrose _______________________________ Pseudoephedrine Hcl 120 mg Candellia Wax Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose Magnesium Stearate Micro crystalline Cellulose Polyethylene glycol providone titanium dioxide _______________________________ Pseudoephedrine Hcl 240 mg Candellia Wax Hydroxypropyl Methylcellulose Magnesium Stearate Micro crystalline Cellulose Polyethylene glycol providone titanium dioxide _______________________________ Brand names: withheld pending further notice regarding board policy Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	Ph0enix (Stranger) 08-17-02 20:09 No 346259		Thanks	Bookmark Reply
			Let me be the first to thank and congratulate you. Awesome write-up.
	GOD (Hive Addict) 08-17-02 20:45 No 346265		Geez, with a clean-up this simple and ...	Bookmark Reply
			Geez, with a clean-up this simple and straightforward, swim just may put another monkey on his back. Great write-up. Aprox how long does this take when swiy dreams at night, start to finish?  Looks like a pretty quick job. DMT... its good for what ails ya! Just remember to bring back some of the love.
	codyboy (Stranger) 08-17-02 22:49 No 346278		"Hats off to ya Pardner!"	Bookmark Reply
			The collection of brain cells never cease to amaze me here at the hive........ Thanks for your insights AND your hard work! What a post........
	foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 08-17-02 23:10 No 346283		Beautiful Write-Up	Bookmark Reply
			I have often thought that adding additional adsorbents is the next frontier in pill cleaning.  Ideas however, are a dime a dozen, Hats off to those who put forth the effort and made it work. Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-18-02 21:23 No 346473		Geez agrees!	Bookmark Reply
			SWIG's BTDT--THIS WORKS! SWIG took the first writeup about what became this particular technique and went about giving it an all-thumbs review. (VE figured if SWIG could read it and do it by the book, then anyone could.) Since he has indeed Been There and Done That, he agrees this is the new cure! FIRST TRY:SWIG jumped in headfirst with three hundred white 60's with tripolidine. His first attempt at this technique taught him two things. The first was that he did a poor job scaling this technique up to three hundred pills. The second was that he did not pay enough attention to the writeup, particularly about filtering. The first mistake made work for him. He did not have the proper equipment to work with, and had to do to everything in two parts. The second mistake cost him yield but taught him what he needed to learn about the process. SWIG saw the Charmin filter funnel thing,thought "Charmin Plug," and immediately crammed a piece of Charmin in the funnel neck. This type of plug limits the flow rate to a steady drip and uses the compressed paper as a fine-particle screen. Wrong application for this purpose, completely. The Charmin filter funnel does not restrict the flow of fluid the way a plug does, but will filter out the carbon particles--something that a coffee filter will not do.  SWIG experienced a problem with the Charmin filter funnel clogging. He would not have had the problem had he decanted the naptha, instead of just pouring it in. While a coffee filter basket with filters will fit in the funnel above the Charmin filter, and will catch any pill mass you pour out, it should not be needed. There is no reason to pour off any but the clear naptha. In this process you extract the pseudoephedrine with three volumes of hot naptha and rinse with a fourth. Decant what you can decant without difficulty on each step and leave the rest for the last step. All the same SWIG had free base crystals crash out in the naptha and these were the cleanest, prettiest things one could imagine. The yield was poor, principally due to the filter problem, SWIG's inattention to the instructions, and trying to do too many pills for the available equipment. SWIG suggests that you do a smaller size extraction (3-5 boxes) to try the method out and get a feel for it. After one walk through, you should be able to scale up as necessary. SWIG reacted the freebase with rp/I2 in several small reactions. The product reacted well without contamimating the precursors, the product extracted easily and cleanly and was exceptionally potent. Yields were average for the smaller reactions.  SECOND TRY: Armed with a stout stirrer and a pot to use it in, SWIG acquired two hunred 120 mg Pearls-- all generic. He put these in the coffee grinder, got out his carbon...and discovered it was very damp. It was in a plastic bag, but the bag had not been sealed tightly. The weather had been unusally humid, but there was visible moisture inside the bag. He microwaved these to dry them. He also blistered a thumb learning how hot carbon can get in a microwave. It also retains that heat very well, so be careful. The carbon has some moisture when you get it and drying it in an oven or in a microwave might be a good idea before using it, particularly with the 120's pearls and their water-sensitive formulation. SWIG used 1.5 ml acetone for each gram of pill mass this time, and added only a little extra. The better stirring rod and bowl helped a lot. The process went without a hitch and by the book, (which at that time did not include pyrex pie pans-- it included quart jars in the freezer.) Worked very well. Harvested the crystals the next morning. Did not salt out the remaining pseudo, but left it for the next time. The yield this time of freebase crystals was right at fifty percent of the available pseudo. Waterless a/b of these pills ususally yields 60%--but SWIG figured another time or two with this process and he would be there. THIRD TRY A friend had three hundred white sixties, and wanted me to show him the process. I agreed. We set up in his kitchen, used his blender, my pyrex bowl and stirring rod, his Coleman's fuel. Third try went with a zip, no problem, no complications. We did three pulls and set the fuel, sealed, in the freezer to cool. He called the next day and gave me the numbers (which I don't recall off the top of my head, but I recall was in the mid fifty percent yield range.) FOURTH TRY Remember the recent pictures of the crystals in the waterless a/b thread? Enough said? This is how I got them. Sixty percent range yield, pure, reacted like crazy when heat was added. Final product was so potent everyone did too damn much to start with. It took SWIG two days to type in English again without being distracted mid-sentence by something else. Be careful! This process gives great precursor. Over the last few days SWIG played with the process several times with small batches of different brands of OTC pills. He got consistent results every time on two-box size batches. It did not seem to matter what pills were used. He has yet to do a couple of boxes of 96 count red hots right out of the box, but this is a matter of time.  SUMMARY Welcome to today's universal cure. If you are not doing freebase reactions, SWIG seriously recommends you search for VideoEditor's freebase reaction writeup and follow it. SWIG used to pride himself of his sixty percent yields.  Since following the VE method, his yield average is up to 67% recrystalized pure product. ?Well, three in a row now. New average. SWIG plugs one more VE writeup, the one about how to steam extract meth from the reaction flask. Do your extracting, reacting and extracting product the VE way and you will be doing it first class all the way. This extraction method is easier than the waterless a/b, skips the presoak, and avoids the titration and evaporation. It cuts out steps. That means its quicker. And there are no acid fumes boiling off. That is nice.  With improved yield as an extra bonus, we all owe VideoEditor a big round of thanks from the Hive. Some miscellaneous notes: You can titrate the naptha and recover more pseudo. This has some contaminants in it, but seems to clean well with alcohol recrystalizations. SWIG got some suspected PEG on one try, which he thinks may have been caused by the dampness in the carbon. He said he only got this from the batch of pseudo HCl he reacted, and that it was not a full dose of PEG. It was not present in product obtained from the freebase pseudo. This will need to explored more throroughly. SWIG does not recommend that you mix the freebase with the pseudo HCl, as the pseudo HCl is not as clean as the freebase. The recrystalized pseudo HCl is pretty damn clean, about like pseudo extracted with the full turps cure. SWIG plans on extracting the lost pseudo, and when he has a good pile of it he will re-clean it and react that by itself. VM&P naptha does seem to give better yield and cleaner product, thus far, than coleman's or camp fuel does. The odor in this process is not a problem. You can do this even if your neighbor has a keen sense of smell and a badge. The freebase crystals have not shown any PEG or povidone. The pills attacked have both. If you are intent of reacting pseudo HCl you may wish to incorporate an appropriate non-polar presoak of the GUPs to rid them of povidone or PEG. This will not impair the process used here. It does not seem to be necessary if you are going to use the freebase crystals. It may not even be necessary at all-- I just do not want for Bees think I have an answer that I do not have. As far as I know, there has been no determniation of the contaminants that might appear in the salt form. We do not know yet.  SWIG will say that this technique is fast and simple and yields clean precursor from everything he has thrown in the grinder. It is simpler than the waterless a/b and far less troublesome than the full turps cure. SWIG knows how much time VideoEditor put in on this project, and how many alternatives he tried. It has been a very long, laborious road on his part that demonstrated his attention to detail, his thoroughness in exploring other avenues, and his intuitive insight for such matters. He started out a different direction and did not hesitate to change course when he saw this method as an alternative. And the other one worked pretty damn well as it was! Hats off to VideoEditor!  This Bee deserves commendation for efforts in the fight against extraction foilers everywhere! Medal of Honor time! Service Above and Beyond the Call of the Hive. GREAT WORK. Great writeup! And Thanks from one very appreciative bee who has already benefitted from you work! And to the rest of the bees: Try this. IT WORKS! Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 08-19-02 02:04 No 346531		Yeilds	Bookmark Reply
			Geez Did you correct for the different molecular weight of the freebase when calculateing the yeild? The maximum yeild weight to weight (freebase to HCl) is 82%. Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 02:44 No 346540		Thanks	Bookmark Reply
			geez Geez your making me blush. Thanks for all the kudos everyone! All feedback is appreciated. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-19-02 04:29 No 346560		Very cool VideoEd	Bookmark Reply
			Swim just finished his first try at your extraction technique today! You are a genius! Swim was amazed at how little time the whole process actually  took, even on the first try, swim hasn't weighed any crystals yet or calculated yield, but just by looking at what have already crashed out in the flask, it could easily be near 60%! Swim will however, definitly break out a dust mask when next working with powderized lye. "And behold! They rejoiced, and ate many miniature candy bars!"
	Scottydog (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 04:57 No 346563		Simply beautiful	Bookmark Reply
			Thanks very much for the awesome info on activated carbon! Swis firmly believes this is the ingredient that cleanses and makes for a purer end product. Swis ran the same pills as previously mentioned here: Post No 327708 Swis didn't exactly run the write-up verbatim so to say. Swis substituted ISO IPA for the acetone and didn't bother to add water and also chose not to use the corn starch either. Swis removed the red ala dwarfer and dried pillstock overnight > to grinder > pre-soak 24 hrs in 100% pure mineral spirits > dry > combined with sodium carbonate, NaOH, Rock salt and AC > grinder > onto Naptha "kerplunk" x3. Swis followed verbatim until just before #24) per VideoEditor and titrated the HCL. Swis started with 25 boxes of the Redhot 44s 96ct. 70gs possible, ending with 40.3gs extremely clean pseudo HCL. Approximately 57% yield. When Swis first read the write-up he figured, "Just another Warlock kerplunk." This was not the case at all! The end product is extremely pure. Swis has been very used to having to filter the Toly or Xyl NP per the waterless a/b and have a small emulsion that would interfere with filtration and unecessary time spent with the PH strips. Check, double-check etc. Sometimes having to refilter the titrated water layer just prior to evaporation. Can anyone relate? Anyway like Geezmeister once told Swis. "Swig would rather have 60% of superclean decongestant than 75% of ????" Charmin and Activated Carbon are just the ingredients a bee needs to theoretically KILL the competition. Swis has also experimented with Geez' waterless a/b using both Tol and Xyl as the NP but in the end using Charmin and Activated Carbon as a finishing step resulting in "Supreme rhombic crystals." When in doubt one should theoretically... Try it out! Swis has been blessed by the PM's with VideoEditor and Geez and has learned a ton about the freebase process. This write-up coincides nicely with Rhodiums info on phosphorous acid and its possible use as a substitute for RP. His write-up also calls for the freebase form of E... Great job VideoEditor. Swis didn't help as much as he would have liked to. But this extraction process is definately a "diamond in the rough." Swis remembers the days before plastigakk when Naptha was the preferred NP and kerplunk was KING. Thanks for bringing it back in a major way. Edit: Swis used a carafe (coffee pot) borosilicate glass. Worked great to use directly on the heating element... Also the VM&P Naptha does not necessarily have to be measured verbatim if the HCL salt is the desired result. It can essentially be "eye-balled." Approximately 1" in the coffee pot per boil and that should do the trick. ______________________________ We work... So YOU can play!
	aztec (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 06:05 No 346578		Thanks VE!	Bookmark Reply
			VE: Thanks for all the hard work. SWIA can't wait to try this. My question is the same as one above: what is the estimated time from start to finish? SWIA wants to block off an appropriate amount of time before beginning. Thanks again! Free Speech Free Choice
	Scottydog (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 06:31 No 346581		Approximate time frame	Bookmark Reply
			Not to speak for VE considering he is more versed in this process. Not counting red removal and pre-soak. Swis went from pillstock to HCL form in approx 3 hrs. If going to freebase 2-3 hrs should be pretty close... ______________________________ We work... So YOU can play!
	cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-19-02 06:38 No 346583		Is it more than sqeezably soft?	Bookmark Reply
			swim used vac filtration and filter paper,the stuff filtered quite easily, is swim actually missing out on something good with charmin, or is it a 'better than coffee filters' option? swim went from pills to fb in about 3hrs as well
	Scottydog (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 06:56 No 346586		See Fudgemonkey	Bookmark Reply
			Do a search of "fudgemonkey's" posts. Charmin is far superior to coffee filters. He mentioned it a couple of yrs back in the SE. He was an advocate of the tissue for filtration. Swis used to use a buchner funnel and chem supply filter paper. Through experience Swis has found it to be a waste of time and totally unnecessary... ______________________________ We work... So YOU can play!
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-19-02 09:47 No 346624		The Forth Pull...	Bookmark Reply
			- The forth Pull - Here is an addition I think you will find useful. This will increase free base yield slightly, but more importantly act as a fail safe in case something goes wrong in the main procedure. A cover your ass move. Add this after step 26: 26b) After filtering crystals out return the used naptha to the beaker. Return all filtered solids including the charmin filter to the beaker. Break solids up with a glass rod and mix well. Return to hot plate on med high heat. With constant gentle stirring bring the used mixture back to boiling. Let boil for 1 minute. Turn heat off but leave beaker on hot plate. Make a new charmin filter as per previous step 15.  Filter liquid first, then add remaining solids to funel to drain. Then take a large spoon and press down on top of filter cake squeezing any remaining naptha into the flask. Place into freezer again for at least 30 minutes. SWIVE has been picking up a few extra percent and it helped recover one botched batch that would of been poor otherwise. - Time - SWIVE can run it in about 3 hours start to finish, 4 hours with the forth pull. The first few times I would allow 5 hours to bee safe until you get the feel of it. Start reading all of Jacked's posts on freebase reactions. They are a great reference and it is how SWIVE learned. SWIVE has his own quirky method now, but study Jacked's first so you really understand the fundementals of whats happening. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-19-02 17:13 No 346679		salt form and weights of freebase	Bookmark Reply
			Scottydog elected to react the salt form of the molecule and so incorporated a couple of cleaning steps in the process to be certain povidone and polyethylene glycol would not be present in the final process. SWIG's inclinations were the same, but he elected to try the freebase reaction instead. He had not taken the time to do the process with the additional steps needed to test his hypothesis. He was therefore tentative in his observations about how clean the salt form would be. Scottydog has incorporated the non-polar presoak in the process and reports that his pseudo HCl is clean and pretty. For those who want to use the HCl form, a non-polar presoak is cheap insurance, and probably a good investment in the currency of patience that pays. Foxy: SWIG had fifteen grams of freebase pseudo to react. He had previously determined that the 15 grams of pseudo freebase was the equivalent of 18.4 grams of pseudo HCl. He calculated this to determine his yield from the pillstock with the new extraction technique. When he figured his final yield, he did so by calculating the weight of a one hundred percent reduction of the 18.4 grams of pseudo HCl to meth, which would be 15.0 grams. Ten grams would be 66.66% of that 15.0 gram total. When he got the fifteen gram figure he realized the molecular weight of pseudo freebase was 0.82 percent of the molecular weight of pseudo HCl, a weight shared by the meth HCl molecule. The percentage yield from a freebase reaction should, therefore, be the percentage by weight of meth HCl produced to the weight of the freebase pseudoephedrine reacted. If the precursor is pseudo HCl, the yield by weight of the meth should be compared to 82 percent of the weight of the preursor, since the weight of the meth molecule is 82% of that of the pseudo HCl molecule. Or so I understood from what I learned at the Hive. At least that is how SWIG understands it. If he's wrong (and he was never very good at 'cipering --particularly past the "gazintas") let him know. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	dwarfer (Hive Addict) 08-19-02 22:52 No 346843		Kudos to VE	Bookmark Reply
			Great work! I look forward to giving it a whirl! Hell:  first it's acetone-based freebasing (geeze) and now activated charcoal (VE) I'm falling behind the curve..":<) dwarfer
	beaneater411 (Stranger) 08-20-02 11:38 No 347010		mighty,, mighty fine job you've done here.	Bookmark Reply
			I was talking to my friend earlier and he wanted me to pass this on! I was so happy to come here and SEE what VideoEditor had done for you guys. It takes some patience, and time ,choosing your words so that everyone can understand what your saying, while risking the "flame from above". Very Good VE!! You risk losing your freedom, home, property, and LIFE if you try this.  Now You CHOOSE your path WISEly This should make the whole process easier for some to visualize their goals, as they head into the unknown. Geez, you stroll in , in perfect form , with confirmation of it all , , then take your time clarifying.. each  and everything you SEE that a newbee could trip on. This post will definitely make it nearly impossible possible for people to get hurt or burn up the kitchen. I was crushed when visiting the hive, I really hoped that something would come of the post that i sent in about my misfortune and mistakes. There have been only a few bees here that actually read the whole thing, but I got some great reviews.. . it meant a lot.       Its not easy to draw pictures, places and faces and hold someone's attention while telling a story like that. I hope some more newbee's take the time to look in and see what happened in my home.  Have enough pride in your finished product and for damn sure in yourselves, to follow theese directions. REMEMBER: soaking wet rags, fire extinguisher, ventillation, soaking wet rags, fire extinguisher, ventillation.... if you say it ten times ,, you might hear me.   Listen !   The dissapointment I felt after visiting the thread i wrote was mostly about ,  why cant bees communicate. That dissapointment is all gone now... I feel certain that what I wrote to you all , has and will prevent future disasters for bees..  i see some of my mistakes-- clearly SHOWN   to you here. If you actually going to make this stuff, please read about the "unforseen"  !  Post No 345280 And you make GODDAM SURE you protect your life, property and family !  This   Is   Not  A  Game!  Im not playing! For the bees who criticized me when i arrived here, and said " your not worth shit "  or  "you have nothing to offer"  ... maybe said just in your minds, but you saw me as useless.. ha! Wrong!     I told you so!!!    Stop treating people like shit....  and great big ole'  FUCK you too!! It was my ability to communicate my experiences to you that will help ALL NEWBEE'S save time, money, pain, confusion and maybee even death! And someone who cared enough about others like VE to take the time , to sit you down and SHOW you the simple way.  It takes  A  LOT OF  TIME to get some of you to hear.   Maybe some communication with people could clear up some shit in your personal lives too! People are always flapping their lips ,  stop talking about other people and talk about yourself. And yes, I AM.   go on GIT gone ! Read it, you'll see.  VideoEditor: "tha baddestmutthafukka on the planet , by far"       thats reeeeeel  goOOD!
	dwarfer (Hive Addict) 08-21-02 04:14 No 347199		further kudos	Bookmark Reply
			readability                                           superb completeness                                          superb relative index of ghetto-ishness            HIGH creativity                                            HIGH useability                                             HIGH safety (as per the prior poster..)            HIGH (look out for overheating carbon in the microwave: it WILL burn.) and HUMOR                                         GOOD (the blow-up lab companion idea got ME a woodie":<)  ) =================  dwarfer
	pink_obsession (Newbee) 08-21-02 05:25 No 347228		SWIVE is da man!	Bookmark Reply
			SWIPO can't wait to try this out...she's gathering everything together to give it a whirl.  The FB part will be a new experience for her as well, as she has always used the salt form...but since her annie is dry, it's time to break out the RP and I she's been saving for a rainy day, and from what I understand the FB is preferred in the RP/I reaction?  And definitely cleaner pseudo as well...so, the times, they are a'changin'... FYI...the activated carbon is carried by Wally as well--saved me a trip to the other store when I passed thru their fishies dept. Thanks again, VE...that's a whole new frontier you've opened up to the bees, and smart bees will work, work, work with this before they change the rules again... Didn't your mama ever tell you to marry a woman who can COOK???
	zibarium (Naked) 08-23-02 06:26 No 347968		yup!	Bookmark Reply
			this confirms suspicions; straight to bee by-passing some b/a hassles. heartiest congrats, v.e., for the finest of write-ups!
	bee186 (Newbee) 08-24-02 01:36 No 348259		Thank you!	Bookmark Reply
			Thank you VE! I have read a lot of extractions so far while I've been here and you can tell youv done a lot of work on this one, it's very origional! It's obvious your a very capable independent thinka!
	pink_obsession (Newbee) 08-24-02 09:05 No 348423		HOLY HELL	Bookmark Reply
			I believe these are the most beautiful things SWIPO has ever seen as a bee.  Thanks again, VE.  Wanna get married?  hehehe  Just kidding! Didn't your mama ever tell you to marry a woman who can COOK???
	honeysmoker (Hive Bee) 08-24-02 11:45 No 348458		VE:damn good work!	Bookmark Reply
			VE: damn boy, that shit should be in the smithrhodium. Definately worthy of much good karma. And a keg of GUIness! ;-)~
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-25-02 02:09 No 348689		What can I expect? (Rated as: excellent)	Bookmark Reply
			Here's the bottom line on yield. Each box of pills used has the potential or 1.9 grams of free base. This is equivalent to 2.4 grams of the HCL salt. The average bee with fair lab skills should be able to consistently achieve 1 gram of super clean free base per box or 52% The experienced bee with good lab skills should be able to consistently achieve 1.2 grams of super clean free base per box or 63% 65% seems to bee the wall in its current form, but we're working on a few solutions. Crystallization can take two different forms. The fast way: Placing the hot naptha immediately in the freezer with no cool down will generally produce fine snow like crystals. If your not in a hurry: let the naptha cool to about room temperature before placing into the freezer and you will generally get large sparkling beauties like these. Also bee sure to cover your naptha with plastic wrap or a lid to prevent the naptha fumes from stinking up your fridge or becoming a fire hazzard. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	vin (Stranger) 08-25-02 02:32 No 348691		sodium bicarbonate as valid substitute?	Bookmark Reply
			Cant find washing soda , would baking soda (baked in oven) be a valid substitute as a drying agent for the tone and also viable in this extraction procedure. TFSE a no-go for the answer so far.. Thanx.
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-25-02 03:53 No 348702		sodium carbonate	Bookmark Reply
			Sodium carbonate is at the pool store as dry PH UP or supermarket as washing soda. (by the hammers)  Read the label, should only have 1 ingredient. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	vin (Stranger) 08-25-02 04:09 No 348707		sodium bicarbonate as valid substitute?	Bookmark Reply
			Thanx V.E. , Will do..
	cthulhujr (Stranger) 08-25-02 05:51 No 348722		le evulsion universel	Bookmark Reply
			swim had a dream about extracting 210 120's, via universal,for the first time, a few nights back, yielding just over 9g fb (9.1-9.3), for approx. 46%, swim pulled an additional gram of hcl from naptha, bringing the total to around 50% (if swim did the math right), the fb looked real pristine and reacted (rp/i) picture perfect! just had to share that with everyone. This technique should work great on those gas station pills too, swim bets.
	placebo (irritable and cranky) 08-25-02 16:25 No 348829		How about this... Soak ground up pills in Mineral ...	Bookmark Reply
			How about this... Soak ground up pills in Mineral Turpentine overnight. Wash ground up pills with acetone Dissolve pills in water filter heavy solids through loose cotton balls Basify and chill water, freebase should float to top and crystallise Skim them off, or loose filter. All depends whether the pills you use, is it the povidone fucking an A/B or is it some other additive like a surfactant. I still think the best is Turps soak 3x Methanol pulls 3x tol boils 1x acetone boil Then basify and filter or extract and then carefully boil off toluene. pretty easy and straight forward.
	cthulhujr (Newbee) 08-25-02 16:56 No 348835		a/b	Bookmark Reply
			Placebo, until recent months swim had used your turps cure, followed by an alcohol extraction with excellent yields and results, as a matter of routine. Recently however, 'The Cure' and/or any a/b in water, let this new gakk pass right through. A waterless or VE's 'universal' a/b seem to be the answer so far, even though they are a bit of a hassle with low overall yields. I think that last sentence was me whining, so i'll shut up now
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-25-02 17:00 No 348837		more than just providone...	Bookmark Reply
			Hi placebo: you cannot dissolve the current dry matrix pills in water. You end up with an unfilterable glue that never quite drys. Even the red hots are being reformulated. Most pills are also starting to contain PEG and some wierd plastic shit that only Dwarfer or Wareami can really explain. But what SWIVE really likes about this method is he can do it in about 3 hours not two days. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	pink_obsession (Newbee) 08-25-02 17:41 No 348845		Here's My Vote	Bookmark Reply
			PO would have to vote for the hypothetical cleaning method that VE so kindly shared with everyone.  SWIPO NEVER, EVER got anything this clean with any other method in a long, long time.  And I agree with VE on the time factor--once you get everything in place, it's a snap.  And if SWIPO can do it, ANYONE can do it--perfect for young bees with the blues over trying to get an A/B right.  SWIPO recommends a little paper dust mask, though--cough, cough.  HEHEHE Didn't your mama ever tell you to marry a woman who can COOK???
	platcat (Hive Bee) 08-25-02 17:51 No 348847		Plastic yuk	Bookmark Reply
			Swip has experienced the plastic crap,wasting lots of TIME which is a precious commodity here.   VE is Da Man.Obviously tons of time went into this.Recent visit to Wallys yeilded lots of Pre-Precursors.    Yields with waterless A/B have been in the upper 50% range easily.But the TIME isn't consistant with various scheduling irregulalities.So it takes evan longer.LOL.Can't wait too try it out!   Swip does in fact hate boiling solvents-requires 100% attention which swip finds requires small amount of custom ADD meds.   Sure hate to ruin all these pretty xtails....    Like to hear more about the plastic crap,it is present in my favorite flavor red hots now and Swip knows its gonna get worse.    Bee's around the globe can use this xtract,it seems truly universal, and naptha is about as low profile as you can get.    Great job VE and TEAM PSUEDO BUSTERS.PC Theres a reason for all of this but I dont know what it is? Greg Graffin
	zibarium (Naked) 08-26-02 03:18 No 348980		what does one wash psuedo-fb crystals with?	Bookmark Reply
			or are they coming out clean enough, just evapping the solvent? (btw, zib has dreamt 50% yields with less fuss than this...but can't bee certain if the stock contained the nastiest of nasties, or not.) i'm inclined to go with the voices of experience in such matters...especially when they're written up as flawlessly as v.e. did
	bee186 (Newbee) 08-26-02 03:49 No 348988		killa newbie writeup	Bookmark Reply
			theres no REQUIREMENT to dry alcohol, because it isnt required. thats why i didnt dry my alcohol (ethyl/methytl) on my first attempt and relied on intended use label suggestion. because it looked too daunting in the search engine, so this' cool VE! Thanks again man! nice fast evaporation rates of solvents, VM&P naptha is up there with toluene. it says so here, because i didnt know what VM&p naptha was i thought it might have been a brand that would bee hard to find, but not! http://www.soygold.com/solvent1000-comparson.htm go VE!
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-26-02 04:42 No 349011		White 60's	Bookmark Reply
			Recently SWIG had the opportunity to do the extraction as written. To the pie plates, thank you. He had a batch of mixed white 60's with tripolidine-- gakkiest, nastiest collection of pills you could pick. Sixty percent yield. Completely clean. Ran some 120's, fifty percent yield. Some were the W&L type, so that may explain the lower yield. That, and SWIG admits he didn't work as hard at the 120's...tired. He titrated the naptha to see how much pseudo was lost--only got two grams. The volume recommendations in the write up do make a difference. The write up is very well thought out. VE selected the best options from the available options. SWIG was amazed at how quickly the extraction can be done when you have it down. This is much simpler than solvent boils, and its nice to not have to boil off that acid. SWIG washed his naptha very well after titration (he is a scrapper!) and dried it this morning. He plans on reusing the naptha next time. This is definitely the extraction method of choice for generic white 60's... nothing came over but pseudo, and these pulled more easily than the 120's. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-26-02 14:12 No 349159		evaporation	Bookmark Reply
			zibarium; bee186; Just to clarify, one of the better aspects of this method is that we don't evaporate anything. We are re-crystalizing the free base in the naptha via the freezer. Its one of the primary cleaning mechanisms at work here and one of the reasons its so fast. If properly executed there is no need to wash the free base.  If you had to for some reason you would use ice cold dry naptha. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	zibarium (Naked) 08-26-02 17:47 No 349204		ah, yes...thanks, V.E.	Bookmark Reply
			been a bit shy about putting flammable solvents in the freezer...even well covered. wondering outloud: could a cooler full of ice get the temp. low enough to facciltate the crystalization? what about dual solvent re-crys? pre-thanks!
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-26-02 18:10 No 349210		If you feel you can't do the freezer safely, let ...	Bookmark Reply
			If you feel you can't do the freezer safely, let the naptha sit overnight at room temperature. Nearly the same results, it just takes longer and a slight loss. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 08-26-02 19:00 No 349225		Or cover it	Bookmark Reply
			You can put the naptha in quart jars with the lid on tight and leave it in the freezer overnight. The greater surface area of the pie plate speeds cooling, thus forces the crystals to precipitate more quickly. If you wait on the crystals until the morning, quart jars work beautifully. (Do use the wide mouth ones.) The jars solve the problem of solvent fumes in the freezer.  Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 08-27-02 23:22 No 349790		Mason Jars	Bookmark Reply
			Great suggestion Geez on the mason jars.  If you use the same ones over and over, bee sure to check them each time before use, for cracks and defects from the thermal stress of heating and freezing. I've also seen pyrex bowls that come with airtight covers at the supermarket. Newbees do not use regular glass as it may shatter. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	bee186 (Newbee) 08-28-02 03:08 No 349877		Thank You for clarification VE.sirness!	Bookmark Reply
			Thank You for clarification VE.sirness! The OTC materials are great, I think most people have most if not all of your writeups requirments, hell my great aunt could get in on this!
	bee186 (Newbee) 08-28-02 14:48 No 350068		GO V.E!	Bookmark Reply
			VE just couple of suggested possible alterations after reading through the 3rd time of your work. 1)142 degree Fahrenheit = 61.1 degree Celsius - Instead of a hotplate, boil a kettle of water and fill a deep steel bread tin, or some other vessel. you can control the boiling of the solvent more easily and 400oC+ hotplate just isn't necessary at all, is it? Heat the beaker up before hand with hot water if you want to make sure you get to the 60oC. In fact, lose the hotplate altogether for many reasons I clicked to during my debut, not for the thermal shock thing <-- although jars are pretty common in the ghetto so thats another reason. But because have you ever put a saucepan on the hotplate to cook soup and you see smoke and the occasional spark at the start...Nicca? (lol had to use that word saw someone on IRC use it - loved the ignorant tone of it!do you think its funny too?) 2) All per/1000mg or per/500mg instead of "for every box of pills used" and "for every gram of total pill mass", which I'm sure you put a hell of a lot of behind the scenes thought work in to. Do you think it would be less error prone and workable? Do not take any of what I suggest as a hardcore fightin words rapstar! Its just I can see your a perfectionist, for sure having obsessive compulsive tendencies because you set out a complete system, you refused to put out unfinished work, work which would be seen as such and rejected! But nowe is a time for calm, its been excellently recieved. I'm nowe wondering was this the right moment to have a "looney" or will I need to rock up with a welding mask on from now on... Or the shades you like the shades..niccuh? this might bee a bad time to cough this up, but your reply to "Q6)" cracked me up geez! on Wedsday it did!
	iseebatsdude (Stranger) 08-28-02 20:10 No 350146		RU	Bookmark Reply
			an Austinite too, I recognize some of your graphics, from off of congress I believe. Not wanting to impose on your anonymity, but just letting you no I am a serious river rat, deep south of the river in the music capital of the world. fear&loathing
	wareami (Hive Addict) 08-29-02 05:28 No 350276		Hat's Off!	Bookmark Reply
			To VideoEditor and all the TestMonkeys with a hand in the KooK-E-Jar! A little TWEEK hear and a Little TWEEK Thare... Hear a Tweek...Thare A Tweek...EveryWARES A TWEEKTWEEK! Keep UP the Good Tweekin! Peaceof the ^reaction Have FUN-Bee SAFE Everything Ibee says should be taken with a Large Grain of Sympathomimetic Amine Salt ô¿ôWareami
	bee186 (Newbee) 08-29-02 05:41 No 350285		*confused*	Bookmark Reply
			iseebatsdude, your as out of it as me I see! - I don't know what the hell your talking about bud! explain further if you are talking to me, Ill definetly give you a reply, but assume utter stupidity of me next time please or my answer may be inadvertantly corrrupt rapstar! Wouldn't a PM have been the most considerate to VE? edit: wareami! A little TWEEK hear and a Little TWEEK Thare... Hear a Tweek...Thare A Tweek...EveryWARES A TWEEKTWEEK! Keep UP the Good Tweekin! heheheh Well done!
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 09-01-02 20:43 No 351391		pyrex mixing/measuring bowls	Bookmark Reply
			Anyone who has taken my suggestion to use two-quart pyrex mixing/measuring bowls for processing the pills in the VE fashion should be warned to discontinue their use immediately. Geez spent the better part of yesterday getting a leg sown up after the handle on the bowl decided to divorce the other parts of the bowl...and he had a hell of mess of 220 GUPS with AC, NaOH, naptha, corn starch all over the kitchen. Worse, he was there alone, and knew he could not leave things as they were to go for help, so he had to stop the bleeding and bind the wounds, clean up the kitchen, put away the gear. Hell, by the time he finished cleaning up, he decided to take a shower, put on fresh bandages, and drive to the ER. He has a nasty slash across the patella which laid it open to the patella itself, and a troublesome deep puncture wound about 2" into the leg where a shard of the bowl implanted itself. NaOH in an open wound is no fun. Knee is still sore today, of course. Geez figures he violated a rule about clothing by cooking in shorts, and also knew better than to use the damn mixing bowl on the stove.  This time the cylinder came up on the one with the live round in it. Today I have to see how much yield I lost in this process. Geez is going back to using his white pyrex percolator pots to heat stuff up in...they have not broken on him yet. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	foxy2 (Distinctive Doe) 09-01-02 22:23 No 351450		two-quart pyrex mixing/measuring bowls Yea, those ...	Bookmark Reply
			two-quart pyrex mixing/measuring bowls Yea, those can't take direct heat, only the oven. Visionware glass pots and pans designed for the stovetop is the answer. Those who give up essential liberties for temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety
	Scottydog (Hive Bee) 09-02-02 01:06 No 351528		Jesus Christ Geez!!	Bookmark Reply
			Damn man I certainly hope that heals up okay. I bet that was painful as a motherfucker! In Re: __________________________________________________ "This time the cylinder came up on the one with the live round in it." _______________________________ Russian roulette can be a risky game my brother... Also: ________________________________ "Geez is going back to using his white pyrex percolator pots to heat stuff up in...they have not broken on him yet." ________________________________ Malwart sells these carafes called the "Whistxxr." They come with a metal piece that can be placed between a heating element and the glass. Although a piece of wire hanger would serve the same purpose, these carafes work great for a short two minute boil. Instead of using the stove top for the heating element. Coffee pot warmers like the ones one might see at 7-11 etc can also be found and are less risky and can be quite efficient for Kerplunking... Don't feel bad Geez. Swis made a terrible mistake a while back. He continuously over used the lids that come with the 1 quart mason jars. After many uses with acetone and NP solvents, the seal slowly but surely gets eaten away. Long story short the seal eventually failed while shaking an a/b container with Naoh and ended up suffering minor burns on the leg. Thank god he was wearing gloves! Change those lid seals frequently newbees! Or better yet a 2 liter plastic bottle replaced each time is equally safe. Swis has broken the coffee pots when swirling and accidently banging it into something. Glass stir rods eliminate that possibility... Safety first ____________ Refuse/Resist
	SPISSHAK (Hive Bee) 09-02-02 02:06 No 351547		Lingo question?	Bookmark Reply
			What is Kerplunking? Kind of like "terps, turps, tweerps, aw fuck it!" I saw a while back.
	Scottydog (Hive Bee) 09-02-02 02:15 No 351552		Kerplunking	Bookmark Reply
			SPISSHAK... Worlock: "Ker Plunking for quality and quantity" (Stimulants)
	mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 09-02-02 10:34 No 351715		Shrapnel: Not our friend	Bookmark Reply
			Shitty what happened to y Geez...That sound the glass makes as the fragments fly all over under other circumstances is a rather cool sound, but not in this case. (I recommend you take several Loratab's and call me in a week!:  Dr. MnkyBoy77) SWIM has reported that pre-heating the Naptha (all most to light boil) before adding to the 'dirt' Why is there never any positive news stories about drugs?
	geezmeister (Hive Addict) 09-04-02 16:51 No 352596		about the rest of the pseudo	Bookmark Reply
			You know the pseudo that stays in that naptha, and does not crystalize out in the freezer? The stuff that SWIG has been getting with an acid/water mix and saving?  He had a pile of it this weekend, particularly after he had to clean up a buddy's mess who (for some reason) quit about half way through what he was doing and wound up with a poor yield from the naptha in the freezer.  That same naptha yielded a big load of pseudo that was very heavily laced with PEG. SWIG suspected that the pseudo titrated from the naptha would have PEG. His studies over the weekend confirmed that suspicion. SWIG said one half of the GUPS was extracted by the VE book, and one half was soaked and boiled in dry ISO alcohol then based with an alcohol/NaOH mix which was dried before naptha was added to extract the freebase pseudo. The batch processed with alcohol was full of PEG, far more than found in the acetone-based GUPS batch. He suggested for those who wish to use the pseudo obtained by titrating the naptha, that they either presoak the GUPs in xylene, or do several post-extraction recrystalization with dry alcohol to get the PEG out of the mix. There is enough in the extract from the 120's to foul a reaction. Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	SQUIDIPPY (Hive Addict) 09-05-02 23:00 No 353142		ohh	Bookmark Reply
			A few comments and replies from Squiddly; Sorry to hear about you're mishap Geez. Hope you are O.K. VE; Your method is king. Squiddlys evaluation; Tech,......................................Excellent. Comprehendabilty.................Excellent. Creativity...............................Excellent. DEA,fuck factor(1-10)............10 In Squiddlys years at the hive, this is one of the, if not the best write-up he has ever seen. It combines a number of hive trade marks; 1.)Inovative thinking. 2.)Uses otc items. 3.)Requires minimal chem equiptment and knowledge. 4.)Has a fairly low safety risk factor. 5.)Effective. Squiddly has posted this before, but for the sake of those who may not bee informed. Do not heat solvents in canning jars. Pyrex beakers can bee purchased for a few dollars at any beer and wine shop. Inspect them for cracks regularly. Jars are fine for storage, only. As refered to above, "visionware" is the best road there. Beneath422 This advice should bee taken by all. Any bee who has been dreaming for any length of time knows about fires and mishapps. The first one or two are critical, because one is generally caught by suprise. If you survive the first one ore two, a newfound respect and wisdom then helps to navigate around such things. A little warning. Any bees who are not familiar or experienced reacting F/B, are urged to research first. Unless of course they want orange spots on their ceiling.                                  -S/D What do you mean, my pupils look dilated?
	ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 09-06-02 00:56 No 353199		Casserole Cassanova	Bookmark Reply
			Can someone PM me about any major store chains they know of that routinely stock the "visionware" type of cooking accessories? I wish to learn to bake some of the more esoteric forms of casseroles and omelettes and feel need to have more proper culinary tools at my disposal. The unlimited capacity for verbal flatulence is your divine birth right.
	SQUIDIPPY (Hive Addict) 09-06-02 13:12 No 353426		thrift store	Bookmark Reply
			Can someone PM me about any major store chains they know of that routinely stock the "visionware" type of cooking accessories? Check the thrift stores. They are actually quite plentiful. What do you mean, my pupils look dilated?
	bee186 (Hive Bee) 09-07-02 12:14 No 353753		bit of help	Bookmark Reply
			VideoEditor or someone else. I'm confused as to why the H2O addition in the writeup doesn't mess with the "dry matrix" thing. i think its something to do with the freebase form outcome, I don't really know.
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 09-07-02 15:36 No 353816		water	Bookmark Reply
			As long as everything else is dry,  it's such a small amount in ratio to everything else, it doesn't have too much of a negative effect. Like everything else it's a trade off, lose a little yield here so you gain a little yield somewhere else. In addition we dry the mixture out before extracting so its not "wet" when in contact with the naptha. Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 09-14-02 04:14 No 356141		Midway Thru 1st Stab	Bookmark Reply
			Swims narcoleptic buddy is currently nodding off full time due to an unplanned vacation in Jonestown. Luckily they are no longer enforcing the mandatory koolaid drinking laws there but Jonestown is still not always a nice place to visit. First of all my question to VE would how the hell did you ever dream this thing up? Swims buddy kicked and screamed the whole way through, since he's a creature of habits and doesn't usually enjoy shifting gears out of the old ones. But at the first sight of the FB crystals in his make believe dream flask he just started laughing. That giddy kind laugh that he also gets when he meets the kind of girl that can actually tolerate and maybe actually enjoy his simple presence. Yeild stank though. 1 gram of FB from 4 boxes o'starting goodies. Since freezer space was unavailble the fridge was used but hopefully another round in the freezer later will yeild more FB. FB crystals also coated with grey poweder probably due to not yet exactly being too clued in to the mechanics of makin/adjusting the Charmin filter. VE can you repeat the making of the Charmin folding and placing into the funnel steps so that someone who was 5 years old could understand? Not that the original writeup was bad it's just that with some things swims's buddy is a super dummy. Also Swim's buddy's yeild may have suffered from him being a lazy stirrer while the naphtha boils were taking place. This particular instructional taks was highlighted in red by VE so Swim knows it shouldn't have been skimped on. If that were one of the cuases of the low yeild then it seems that another round of Naphtha boils might free some more precursor. Lastly I'll say that the few who mentioned that use of a dust mask or other from of lung protection would be highly recommended when doing the grinding and sifting here. Lungs in general seem to have a high aversion to fumes or dust cuased from NaOH or lye. VE, do you have your own writeup for a FB rxn or is it only jacked who's got one? I though I recalled Geeze suggesting reading an FB rxn written up by you but this Jonestown atmosphere is getting to me and I could bee confused. Swims buddy will most likely dream of a small non FB test rxn soon so that he can both test the new precursor stock and get the hell out of Jonestown. VE I know that this process now kicks shit on top of most others in the extraction bag so I hope Swim's buddy's flounderings with it on his maiden dream voyage here didn't sound like criticism. Even though she'd slam dunked me I still had backup to complete the end of the game.
	geezmeister (Bee of the Month) 09-14-02 14:57 No 356260		JumboSabe:	Bookmark Reply
			Do let that naptha just sit for awhile. Outside the fridge, it will make the crystals, it just takes longer. And by all means, the next pull of pseudo, use the same naptha. It is already pseudo-saturated at room temp, so you lose no pseudo to the naptha the next time around. Dust masks are a good idea. Stirring is very important. Fine grinding is important, and fine grinding of the NaOH is important. VE tested variants of each step of this procedure and has the results committed to memory. VE did a lot of work on variants before he finally posted this write up. He's working on a better way now, so he's in the lab and will not emerge, most likely until 2003, when he will release "Shortcut to Bee" which has something to do with a new rocket fuel he intends to market to NASA. As to yields, you will likely find, as SWIG did, that the second try on this technique is much easier than the first. By the third pass, its done on auto pilot. And yields go up and up. On the Charmin filter: depends on the funnel a little bit. SWIG has settled on five squares, folded over each other twice, dampened with naptha, then carefully pressed against the sides of the funnel. The naptha is poured in slowly, so as to not dislodge the sides. I suspect the VE uses a fuel funnel, which has a plastic strainer mesh in the neck. I found one, clipped the tabs off the strainer, and have used it very extensively since. Seems to work like a charm. The mesh supports the Charmin, the thickness is not as important. Or so SWIG says. But then, what does he know? By all means read all the posts by Jacked and by VideoEditor about freebase reactions.  I believe the thread you want (the thread, not the post) is VideoEditor: "A Looping Reaction?" (Stimulants). Of counsel. On Tuesdays.
	mnkyboy77 (Hive Bee) 09-15-02 08:29 No 356463		By Krackie, Geez is right!	Bookmark Reply
			If the process is done a few times, its true, the auto pilot comes on and the yields do increase. A few twist's that SWIM does: 1)  With the powder (dry) in one beaker, there is another with nap on the hot plate.  when it starts to bubble, SWIM pours 50 ml/"box" onto the powder and mixes it in well.  Then places this back onto the hot plate until it too srarts to boil...(Yes, stirring is important here).  Once boiling has comenced again, SWIM quickly pours the contents into the filter (dirt and naptha) and lets it sit for a few seconds.  Then SWIM fires up the vacume pump and suck the dirt dry.  (there has been times when there is fb xtals forming as the naptha hits the bottom of the flask).  Lets the contents cool, strains out the xtals, reheats the naptha to a boil and pours back on the dry dirt.  SWIM then lets it sit for a few seconds then turns on the vac pump with only ~5 mm/gm, just enough to cause the funnel to start to drip.  Then proceds to keep enough of the reheated naptha in the funnel to cover the dirt. Geez's comment about testing every possible varible it true!  Most beez will consult others to aid them in the testing/research months before the write-up hits the hive.  When it does hit the hive one could be pretty damn sure that everything has been tried so you need not waste your time!!! Why is there never any positive news stories about drugs?
	bee186 (retarded) 09-15-02 11:18 No 356507		Re: When it does hit the hive one could be pretty ...	Bookmark Reply
			When it does hit the hive one could be pretty damn sure that everything has been tried so you need not waste your time!!! mnky: Youve made it through my thick skull, I came to that conclusion last night. Obviously I didn't learn from turps cure improvising. Its just time wasting. thank you for h2O clarification VideoEditor, I'm just going to dive in and follow every instruction swI(!)VE gave with trust in experience, its his/her finished work afterall. Geez, swib uses a fuel pump with mesh also, but its SS i think, definetly metal anyway. Anyway solvent is OK with it? Acid? A yup&yup or a yup&no will do! thanks in advance Ill come back when I've tested it out with a yield!
	Jacked (Ancient Alchemist Delux) 09-22-02 20:58 No 359157		Nice	Bookmark Reply
			Pretty work VE, It's good to see a write up like that. I for one thank you for your efforts and willingness to share... The end result is directly connected to the effort applied
	biojammer (Hive Bee) 09-27-02 05:48 No 361081		a quick dry!	Bookmark Reply
			grind the washing soda, salt, carbon, and NaOH separately, mix and place into microwave for about 30 seconds... superhot!!! this quickly dries the powder, so no need to wait for oven to dry... caution: carbon in microwave sparks!!! the carbon is what gets sooo hot (uncertain if washing soda is burning). once cool, then mix GUPs. some of you may have thought of this, and some may do things old school anyway, but swim's found this greatly conveinient! of course, swim's not noticed any difference in product (between oven vs. mic. - except the time frame!) nevermind
	ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 09-27-02 06:07 No 361090		Sparking Arcing Micowaves	Bookmark Reply
			Swim's got a type of micowave that is not kind to clandestine chemists that likes to spark and arc. So flammable solvents  or flammable anything are no goes in this beast. Swim did give the carbon a try in it but it sparks galore. Water is the only solvent it seems to not want to fire up. For some reason now I'm thinking of the great old classic toy called Rock'em Sock'em Robots. I've fallen into a bottomless pit and I can't get it up.
	biojammer (Hive Bee) 09-27-02 06:20 No 361098		the point	Bookmark Reply
			swiy: dry the "other stuff" powder (mic). then mix in gups. theeeenn proceed with acetone...fb nevermind
	aussie (Stranger) 09-27-02 16:24 No 361209		Appreciation is felt .Thanks Mate	Bookmark Reply
			Many thanks what can I say ?  ,  Thanks Mate Test run looks to be the best I have managed ( as a newbee ) Will confirm later in the day
	dwarfer (Hive Addict) 09-28-02 01:49 No 361417		microwave	Bookmark Reply
			Initial Microwave heating of pseudo has been shown to assist yields, probably because it drives off hydrated water which 1.  screws up the dryness and 2.  provides a "hook" for some of the nasty amendments to attach to.  (Pure conjecture on my part.) ========== There has to be a reason y'all don't like to do these boils inside a sealed pipe..?? The advantages for safety and effectiveness are many.. Is there a reason why NOT that I'm missing?? dwarfer
	biojammer (Hive Bee) 09-28-02 04:57 No 361476		but	Bookmark Reply
			i think that the carbon is really really hot, so would swid mix all powders, then nuke? or nuke the pseudo separately from the mix? p.s. swim loves the pipe idea, but swim used an empty soda bottle for older pp/ss. or are you saying what i'm thinking? pressureized strait 2 bee boiling?! what a concept! this could bee interesting. nevermind
	biojammer (Hive Bee) 09-28-02 05:07 No 361480		further thought	Bookmark Reply
			it would take a big pipe, or pressurecooker...but lye would eat the metal. i'm thinking teflon paint. nevermind
	ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 10-08-02 06:23 No 365810		Not So Hot Yeilds Again?	Bookmark Reply
			Swim's buddy tried a second go at the UniEx and out of 9 boxes his initial returns were 2 grams of FB. An experiment of using slightly more acetone and letting the mix sit over night to base longer did not seem to increase yeilds any. One thing noticed though were some truly humungous FB crystals residing in what was thought to bee an airtight container housing the left over naphtha from the last attempt. These had been sitting undisturbed for at least two weeks as the naphtha they came out of very slowly evaporated. So an experiment is now in progress in which half the Naphtha leftover from this time was vapped and then the remainder refrigerated. After one hour in the fridge more crystals are present and the container will be moved to the freezer soon. If he's lucky maybe he'll get enough for a tiny test FB rxn but seeing how the WOD has now thwarted him so well in recent weeks he sees the possibility of "giving up the go", so to speak, as most all of current efforts have not been worth the return. Sans dookie
	VideoEditor (Hive Bee) 10-08-02 06:52 No 365818		2 places	Bookmark Reply
			Failure usually happens in two places. Hope you kept everything. 1st) Basing was incomplete. 2nd) The Naptha never got hot enough or in contact long enough with the dirt. Return the dirt to a suitable size beaker. Just cover solids with fresh naptha 1 1/2 times. Add additional NaOH, a few grams for each box. Heat to boiling. Boil vigorusly for 5 mins.  Filter.  Freeze. repeat if nessasary Real Men Don't Preview Their Edits
	ChemoSabe (Hive Addict) 10-08-02 07:09 No 365824		Saving Things	Bookmark Reply
			Swims buddy saves more than he probably should but it's oftentimes provided him a menagerie of "anti-jones options" when things run towards dryness. He did think that putting the older potting soil thru another run with naphtha could be a worthwhile venture and now he's got a fresher batch to add to it. One positive thing about all this is that swim's buddy has now long caught up on any missing sleep he may have had but now the problem is over doing it. Sans dookie
	X_Stacy (Newbee) 10-08-02 11:55 No 365929		problem may bee naptha	Bookmark Reply
			I might be talking out of place here, but remember that the first times with naptha, some product will be dissolved until the naptha is saturated. Also, should be anhydrous. Swim's tried this method verbatim many a time and got great results. Only one time when using red hots did yield go under 60%, and that could be attributed to excess h2o from red removal (swim should bee more patient) "I laugh in the face of danger, and then I hide until it goes away."
	RepVip (Hive Bee) 10-08-02 12:50 No 365948		Charcoal, Naptha	Bookmark Reply
			VE:  What an excellent write-up!  You should be proud of yourself! I did have a question about the charcoal.  I read the entire thread so I hope I didn't miss it.. but why is the charcoal used?  And is there any replacement for it?  Could it just be left out?  I'm simply curious, that's all.  It shouldn't be too hard to obtain, and I'm sure I will.  Just curious as to what purpose it serves? Oh, and VE, those FB crystals are beyond description
	vin (Stranger) 10-22-02 19:57 No 371329		25/200 Ephidrene Pills	Bookmark Reply
			Has anyone tried this on 25mgE /200mg.Guifen.pills. Have a bunch from when I was using Festers extraction. Nothin Ive tried so far works. might this? Howd' I do that?
	Plague (Stranger) 10-22-02 22:53 No 371413		Charcoal from chemist - What about Naptha?	Bookmark Reply
			Charcoal is easy to obtain. Go into the chemist and say you have indigestion & gas and want some 'activated charcoal' capsules. They're like $5 for 100 or something. Empty the capsules. My question is with regards to the Naptha. When pursuing another dream I went and bought a whole lot of it and it was never used. It IS only Naptha, as reads on the back of the tin, but its lighter fluid, not from the paint store. Will this bee ok?
	peregrine (Newbee) 11-03-02 04:34 No 375916		Chlorpeniramine maleate	Bookmark Reply
			I noticed on your list of pills this techique works on does'nt include 60s with Chlorpeniramine maleate.Will there be a problem using these type of pills.
	cthulhujr (Hive Bee) 11-03-02 05:04 No 375929		chlorphenramine	Bookmark Reply
			they will work Iä-R'lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
	peregrine (Newbee) 11-03-02 06:08 No 375942		re reply	Bookmark Reply
			Thanks for the reply.I'm new at this and trying to grt through this w/out asking dumbass questions but at this hour charmin is not possible.I have softpac t.p that says recycled without chlorine bleaching,will that work for a plug?
	peregrine (Newbee) 11-03-02 10:37 No 375978		I see the oils	Bookmark Reply
			I to jump in head first,but thought I could use another t.p brand.My pull is full of carbon but I can see oils floating in the naptha.Is there anything I can do about it.Can I still refilter with the right brand of t.p.
	cthulhujr (Hive Bee) 11-03-02 11:13 No 375984		slow down, wait and get some charming	Bookmark Reply
			You are not in a hurry. You are not in a hurry. Haste makes waste, You can tweak another day. Yes refilter, but heat the naptha up again first, or pfed crystals will be lost.  do not procede with any steps until you have everything you need, if needed items are temporarily unavailable, stop and use thas time to read up. Not ramble like swim. Iä-R'lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
	peregrine (Newbee) 11-03-02 11:23 No 375986		thanks I'll do that	Bookmark Reply
			I saved everything, dirt to.I also think I didn't heat enough becouse I only had pyrex bake dish.I read your other post .I should get a coffee pot?Should I pour back over dirt and store untill I get plug and better glass or store separate?I hope I can get it right this time,I'm getting really frustrated and broke.Thanks again
	cthulhujr (Hive Bee) 11-03-02 12:40 No 375994		tisk tisk	Bookmark Reply
			a glass coffe pot is an ideal container for this, bake dish is bad newz, when boiling solvents. swim doesn't see why you can't store it all together, others may differ. Iä-R'lyeh! Cthulhu fhtagn! Iä Iä!
	platcat (Hive Bee) 11-04-02 03:47 No 376214		RX for sucess	Bookmark Reply
			Swip tried this today at the urgeing of a well respected bee and can only say its too easy to be true!!!but...it really is the new cure.xtails jump out of solution!!never has swip seen such a Otc method so radical in simplicity!!!!any suggestions on excess carbon in xtailS?swip anxious to wreck these xtails in da volcano!VE.....AWESOME.....PC(thanks geez). Theres a reason for all of this but I dont know what it is? Greg Graffin
	ballzofsteel (Miss High & Mighty) 11-04-02 04:14 No 376216		pc just refilter your naptha/freebase through ...	Bookmark Reply
			pc just refilter your naptha/freebase through tissue.But do it nice and slow.You can also rextalise your fb crystals with fresh naptha.
	Plague (Stranger) 11-06-02 05:55 No 376920		Charmin alternative for bees outside the US?	Bookmark Reply
			If one lived outside the US where charmin wasn't available what should one look for? Is it tissue paper? plain old tissue? paper towel? Thanks
	zibarium (Naked) 11-06-02 09:01 No 376978		charmin is "gay" toilet paper	Bookmark Reply
			its very soft...probably has an amazing surface area compared to the "hard-ass" toilet paper real men use. (if real men even use toilet paper...i haven't asked in awhile)

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